A puppet in the image of artist Rirkrit Tiravanija.
Image: visualarts.walkerart.org/the artist

VoCA caught up with Thai artist Rirkrit Tiravanija on the eve of the opening of his exhibition at OCAD’s new Professional Gallery.

Tiravanija is known in contemporary art circles world-wide. He won the Guggeheim’s Hugo Boss prize in 2004 and was featured in the New Yorker magazine in October 2005.

He is perhaps best known for his exhibitions where he cooks up and serves a Thai curry to gallery visitors.

Rirkrit Tiravanija, Pad Thai, 1991-96. Image: deappel.nl

He is notoriously difficult to bracket, however. He works in many media, including painting and sculpture. In 1998, he initiated an ongoing project in Thailand called The Land, an off-grid community where artists (or anyone) can go and live…

The Land, near Sanpatong, Thailand, is a place for the cultivation of artistic ideas and social engagment.
Image: rsa.org.uk

Rirkrit Tiravanija is represented in New York by Gavin Brown’s Enterprise.

For the OCAD exhibition, the front door of the gallery is bricked out entirely. The back door of the gallery is likewise bricked out with the words “Ne Travaille Jamais” crudely painted on the bricks with black paint.

VoCA: Tell me about the OCAD exhibition..?

Rirkrit Tiravanija: Originally we had proposed to do some of the cooking works, then we found out it would be impossible to do it..to cook in this space…so I decided to change it…but even this work is not something new. I made this piece in the Berlin gallery Neugerriemschneider, which is kind of opposite to this one, where I blocked out one door and kind of extended the gallery space. And then the gallery asked me to do a similar piece for their booth at the Basel art fair. I think they thought that I would brick out one entrance and they would still be able to operate their booth…but I said if I was to do it, they would have to go on holiday and leave the booth empty. They did.

VoCA: That’s quite exceptional, since it costs tens of thousands of dollars for a booth at Art Basel?

RT: Yes, that’s right. They had an understanding of what (that piece) means. The text “Ne Travaille Jamais” is from the Situationists in the 1960s…which is interesting in this hypermarket of art…Perhaps it is important to block out some doors…People will be amused, or confused.

VoCA: I found it interesting that the press release for the OCAD gallery says “Tiravanija’s practice is a perfect metaphor for the Professional Gallery’s intentions…he invites viewers to become active participants, thus fully animating the work” when in actuality no one will be able to enter the gallery at all.

RT: My work anticipates the (viewer’s) expectations, I’ve always tried to address that by not fulfilling them. The institution has to realize its limitations…those are unfortunate because it stops art from happening – it stops life.

Either (the institution) should rethink what they are or accept that (they are) a freezer box…and then show that, that things are kept at a certain temperature, in a certain light and won’t change. I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing, either. They might not be able to show the cutting edge, there might be too much compromise…

VoCA: In your artwork you often act as a facilitator, a somewhat reluctant impresario. You have said that your presence isn’t required for your art to succeed. Traditionally ‘art’ has been in the art object itself or, post DuChamp, in the artist’s sensibility. We think of art as possessing an ‘aura’ that doesn’t exist in the real world. Where is the ‘art’ in your art?

RT: In the people that are involved. In the user.

VoCA: To what extent do you require the art world/gallery? Would your work be possible without the gallery or does it function kind of like a canvas for you?

RT: Context is always very important but moving out of the gallery, it would still be framed…it’s not so much about the object, it’s more about the action, the attitude, how one exists in the world. Not that there’s no difference, but more about how we carry the attitude on. It would be great if people were more open, honest. If they were more communicative with each other.

VoCA: How important has the Buddhist idea of non-attachment been in shaping the kind of art that you make?

RT: It’s an attitude. It’s just more natural for me to think that way. It’s more different now that there’s so much more coming at us…it’s important to recognize that.

VoCA: Do you make art with this in mind?

RT: I don’t know…it’s natural. I think it’s there because I am that way.

VoCA: I’m intrigued by the idea of having the viewer complete the artwork, of the viewer using the utensils afterward, of creating his own art. This has the effect of eliminating the artist from the art, of bridging performance art and life completely. How important are early performance art pioneers like Allan Kaprow, Claes Oldenburg to you as influences?

RT: It’s applied differently. Part of it is about the experience which is based on the person…everyone is different. Everyone comes out with different experiences. It’s about your attention in the world which is different from day to day. In my recent retrospective at Museum Boijmans van Beuningen in Rotterdam, for example I had no work.

VoCA: You had just audio recordings, right?

RT: Yes, I had a docent taking people around….Everyone has a different image of everything, different ways of experiencing things. I often find out that people see the same thing but differently. I would meet people who saw my work, they each have a different image of it. It’s about individual experience. Each person is looking at it from their own space and each one is different.

VoCA: The replicas of your New York apartment that you showed at the Serpentine Gallery in 2005 reminded me of Do-Ho Suh’s fabric replica of his New York apartment that he showed at the Serpentine in 2002. How important is the idea of cultural displacement to your work?

Do Ho Suh, Perfect Home II. Image: artnet.com

RT: I know Do-Ho…Even before the Serpentine he was making a replica of his father’s house in Korea. For me, replicating spaces has to do with that. The first apartment I did was in Cologne. I was in a residency, I had to start a whole new apartment as I was the first person on the residency and I had to build a whole new life…and see what would happen.

My New York City apartment, which I still have is still rent controlled…It’s interesting to travel and replicate the place that you want to go back to. I was always very nomadic…my father was a diplomat. Now I’m building my own house in Thailand…

VoCA: Does this relate at all to your work The Land, which says on Gavin Brown’s website, is an “ongoing project”. Tell me about how this is presently developing.

In 1998, Rirkrit and an artist named Kamin Lerdchaiprasert bought a plot of land outside the village of Sanpatong, near Chiang Mai, with the idea of establishing a self-sustaining collective enterprise where artists and local villagers could live and work, growing rice and generating their own electric power and gas for cooking by innovative, environmentally friendly means.

RT: The Land is in the countryside near where we are building our own house. I’m working with an architect friend but we have no construction plan, the process is like sculpting…(laughs) We have a floor plan but no construction plan.

The Land started as a place for artists to meet, to retire in a community of friends. The idea was to have self-sustaining land off-grid. Not like a commune….but whoever came would make their own input, they would have to figure out how to survive. There are houses being built, there is a rice field, a gardener. It’s been popular among younger Thai artists, and there have been international artists too. It’s a neutral space. We became a foundation, so we have had to make plans to dictate our mission, but we try to get by with as little bureaucracy as possible.

A few years ago we began what we called “The One Year Project”, as a residency for younger artists. They would adopt the lifestyle of Buddhist farmers, working in a holistic agriculture. We will start one in October with about twelve people. We have twelve studio spaces…you can check The Land Foundation website.

VoCA: Here in Canada we (not only artists…but writers too!) can feel a bit isolated from the rest of the world – New York, London, Berlin. How important is it for you to maintain a global practice? How important is this for young artists today?

RT: We are all wired, can’t avoid being globalized. This should be taken advantage of to come together and do things. The Land has been very much connected despite where we are. People come from everywhere. It’s interesting that Toronto is connected but can feel as if it’s further away. Corporations are realizing, too that creative minds are the future. Even in Singapore, they are encouraging people to think outside the box. Creativity is so important. Is the future to be creative…?

VoCA: What does this mean vis a vis art schools? Is this idea at odds with the notion of the institution?

RT: That’s something that the One Year Residency addresses. The idea of the One Year Residency is to have an alternative space where you’re not taught, rather it’s a discussion. Options, choices, possibilities. It’s not about having the best skills or techniques.

VoCA: It seems that your work centres around this idea of just being yourself, community, developing individual experience. But you still need the art gallery for your work…otherwise, you’d just be a normal guy.

RT: (laughs) Well, I’d like that, if I were just a normal guy. That’s what I’m moving towards..just letting go and not holding onto things like that. There will always be boundaries that will keep me involved…that’s what’s interesting…even as we are constantly breaking down boundaries there are more boundaries than ever.

VoCA: By hook or by crook, the art market will always find a way to make money!

RT: That’s right! (laughs)