Founded in 1993, Mammalian Diving Reflex is a “research-art atelier dedicated to investigating the social sphere, always on the lookout for contradictions to whip into aesthetically scintillating experiences, producing one-off events, theatre-based performance, theoretical texts and community happenings.”

According to their website , “It is our mission to bring people together, engage them, challenge them and get them talking, thinking and feeling.”

VoCA has been wondering for some time whether Mammalian artistic Darren O’Donnell is one of the most interesting and relevant artists in Canada. We sat down with him in Toronto to find out what his work is all about.

One of Mammalian Diving Reflex’s popular performances, “Haircuts by Children”. Image: torontolife.com

VoCA: What are you working on now?

DO: We’re going to Vancouver to do the Children’s Choice Awards. We’ll organize a jury of kids, we go to see the shows that will be at the Push festival, and we’re going to do it here in the spring, where kids will eat meals in the best restaurants and judge the restaurants. We will probably have an award ceremony.

VoCA: You describe what you do as ‘activist performance’ – is that more performance art or theatre? Or both?

DO: Where does it say that? Oh, we’ll have to change that…It’s more performance art. I don’t like theatre very much.

VoCA: I love the idea of your performance ‘Haircuts by children’, where kids offered the public free haircuts. It says a lot about trust and how our society is organized. What was the response to the performance?

DO: People love it, often hundreds of people would turn up. Tons of people showed up in Vancouver - we were the main image on the poster for the Push festival. We were also at Performa in NYC - it was packed. Sometimes the shows are smaller.

Mammalian Diving Reflex, pppeeeaaaccceee. Image: mammalian.ca

VoCA: Why was it important to you to give power to kids?

DO: We’ve only been doing (children-related projects) in the past few years, and it’s been fun and interesting so we had developed similar projects. But we’re wrapping that up now. We’re not initiating projects with kids anymore. We’re not going to avoid them, but…we’ll turn stuff down. It’s a lot of a particular kind of work and it’s about looking at things in a particular way, and we’ve investigated that. I mean, like Picasso goes through his period, we’ve gone through ours. (laughs)

Martin Creed, Work No. 370 Balls, 2004. Image: nationalgalleries.org

VoCA: You’ve done Haircuts by Children in many cities around the world. How do you organize these performances? Are they in conjunction with art galleries?

DO: Usually it’s through festivals, there’s a whole circuit…mostly theatre, dance, music and some visual art. In Melborne, Sydney, with the Push festival….We get plugged into that circuit.

VoCA: How are you funded?

DO: We’re get funding though all three levels of government, some foundation cash, and companies/festivals…We used to get DFAIT travel money, but now with the government cuts…

VoCA: How have the government cuts to the arts affected you?

DO: We haven’t felt the results of the cuts yet, but it probably means we won’t be able to travel. Or, rather that the onus will be more on the festivals. There will be (smaller) festivals that can’t afford us.

VoCA: You launched Mammalian Diving Reflex in 1993. What was your favorite performance that you’ve done?

DO: Well, Haircuts by Children I really like..

Gustavo Artigas, Geeta vs Sage, ‘vs Series: Event-Ceramic process 2001′ Image: artthrob.co.za

VoCA: Someone should make a documentary of your work!

DO: Yes, we’ve had a lot of interest in that, but Canadians never seem to get their shit together, and there’s not the funding.

VoCA: What motivated you to begin doing this kind of work?

DO: I went to the University of Alberta in Edmonton. I studied acting - I have a BA in acting – that’s all I’ve got. (laughs)

I first started to make my own theatre, because acting in other people’s stuff was not interesting. There was interesting stuff happening in the performance and visual art realm that was way more cool and thoughtful. Theatre seemed to be behind the times aesthetically.

There’s post dramatic theatre, and people are making stuff happen in ways that doesn’t use character plot conflict…that kind of thing is interesting but you need to get out of Canada to experience it.

There are visual artists – like Santiago Serra, Gustavo Artigas, Francis Alys, Martin Creed, Phil Collins – who are working in ways that are more real, with real people in real circumstances.

VoCA: There’s been a lot of talk about Relational Aesthetics, and more recently about community-based art and collaborative projects like the recent Harrell Fletcher show at Toronto’s Power Plant. How does what you do fit in with this?

DO: What we’re doing is totally within that. That’s one of the things we do. I worked on Harrell’s project and I gave a lecture at Portland state university, in Harrell’’s program.

Harrell Fletcher, I’ll Follow You 2005. A performance at Laura Bartlett Gallery, London, England.
Image: harrellfletcher.com

VoCA: Why do you think this kind of work is important?

DO: I think it’s interesting…I’m not sure about important. Because when you’re in the theatre/gallery there are particular relationships that are predetermined – the rehearsal, the stage manager, it’s a completely sealed experience and the audience experiences things in a particular way – no cellphones, no talking etc. It’s more fun to try to create situations without strict parameters, that induce real relationships between real people.

This kind of thing is more interesting that predetermined experiences…there are more variables, questions, challenges, the stakes are higher,…there’s the relationship between it…I prefer work that you can experience and still take a phone call in the middle, which you can’t do if you have to completely seal off the experience.

I like to be able to walk away from work if I’m bored. I mean if you’re participating, you won’t be bored, but if you’re in the audience, if you’re bored, you can walk away.

VoCA: When you take art out of the gallery and into the community, what keeps it art? How do we know it’s art? Is it art?

DO: The problem is that every moment (in life) is a project, if you define it as that…which a lot of people do, they socialize as a project.

The whole thing is ridiculous, it’s depressing from all fronts. Art being separate from life is depressing, art melding with life is depressing….

Carsten Holler, RB Ride, 2007. Image: villamanincontemporanea.it

VoCA: It’s the end of art – people have been saying that for years.

DO: The way I think of it is that everyone who makes art, that’s how we find meaning in our lives, and we need to put it down gently together as if it’s a weapon…we need stuff to do, though so what are we supposed to do now?

I mean, if art has become meaningful hanging out, then let’s make it into that…let’s put our resources into that, to build meaningful community centres.

I’m kind of in a grumpy mood today.

VoCA: Thanks Darren. (laughing)

Darren later emailed us to clarify: “I think what’s more likely than art melding with community centres is art melding with cafes, hotels and nightclubs,” and he referred us to THIS article on the artist Carsten Holler from the Times of London.

For more info, please visit Mammalian’s website HERE.